little kids and puppies

[dogsDearly]

So over father's day, my step-sister came over with her 8 month old Weinheimer. He's such a good baby and really well behaved for an extremely active teenager. That said? It was a great dress rehearsal for having a big crazy dog mixing with my two excitable children. For the most part, it was great because i got to see the things NOT to do.

1) Try to keep kids from running and screaming when dog is bounding around.
2) When dog IS bounding around, kid either needs to stop and walk away to a safe location (get on couch, etc) or just stop.
3) Bixsby thought my son was an overgrown squeak toy. He's nip at his ears when overly excited.
4) When kids have food, they much be delegated to a safe space because puppy has no problem snatching it out of his hands.

Over all the kids had fun but there were a few incidents. My daughter is 5 and she caught on about the energy level thing real quick. My son? well. He got injured. Nothing too horrendous.. but he got knocked over backward and konked his head on the concrete. Luckily, i have a rugby player of a son and he bounces back quick from injury.

So we got to work on this running and squealing thing. Luckily the puppy starts small. Does anyone have any good tips with teaching kids about puppies?

[kasmith]

First, I think it is so great that you're trying to find out how to work on the kids being around dogs. There are so many children in our condo who have no idea how to react around dogs, and think it is the best idea ever to go running towards a dog with their hands stretched out in front of them to pet them.

I have absolutely no suggestions because we don't have children, but I can't wait to read this because our 5 year old niece has come over before and it was absolutely horrific for Abby. Abby is petrified of children, and some times Abby just needed a break and to go in another room away from her. In spite of my attempts to tell Ashlyn not to follow me she would, and then if Abby ran past her Ashlyn would reach out to pet her as she went by just to be able to say she pet the puppy. Oh was it a disaster. The last time was at Christmas, and I've been afraid to ever invite them back because Ashlyn just doesn't listen sometimes. I tried to tell her countless times that if she just sat down and worked on her puzzle book and left Abby alone, Abby would be curious about her and want to approach her. Nope! Couldn't do it! And as someone who doesn't have kids, I'm really interested to see what people suggest for all of this because I just have no idea of how to work with kids and teach them to be around dogs.

[krb0471]

For the food thing- I would give your dog a designated spot during meal times and when humans are eating. I had Basja sit in the doorway if she needed to be near us during meals, otherwise she was on her bed- not allowed in the dining room/kitchen during meals. No under the table, next to a human or near the table to ensure food that was dropped wasn't tempting. When we were done she got a treat for good behavior. After a while they learn that you get to eat then they get to eat. Start this early- we had a blanket that was her "spot" and it traveled with us to ensure she had her area and knew that when it came out she was to stay there.

[Swissies4Me]

I'm not really any help, since we don't have children. Good luck, and I look forward to hearing how Zen and your children bond and adjust to each other.

[Delynnr]

We have a 'go to your bed' command around here. Whenever the girls are pesting the humans too much they get to go lay on their bed. This works for meals, or when we have people that are a bit scared of dogs. My two love kids, so sometimes it is more that the kids are not so sure about a 50lb dog coming at them, so the command comes in there as well. I think staying on the bed is the hardest for them with kids, they WANT to be right in the thick of things.

Also - don't let the puppy jump up on you, it is cute when they are 15lbs, not so cute when they knock people/kids over. I would work on the puppy taking food from your hand in a very gentle way. Don't let them get the food until they approach in a very slow gentle way. Kids often want to feed dogs and a dog gently taking a bit of food is MUCH better than one who lunges. This could also be good with Abby - get her to take food from a teen, then a tween, then younger and younger - if she is food motivated and gentle taking food this might help her with her fear.

I think the kids and puppy will learn about each other rather quickly if the kids aren't crossing the line from being playful to too rough - that too can teach bad habits. Not that you should coddle the puppy and not let the kids play but use it to teach when it is too much on both sides (puppy and kids)

[Baroooo]

I love your post Renelle. Lots of good points. I did giggle a little bit though. Zen will probably already be more than 15lbs when she arrives home!

[kasmith]

This could also be good with Abby - get her to take food from a teen, then a tween, then younger and younger - if she is food motivated and gentle taking food this might help her with her fear.

I'll give it a shot. What we've tried with her is "Go Say Hi," where I ask if she wants to go say hi to someone. She then goes and touches the hand of the person I point her to, and comes back to me for her treat. The only problem is that sometimes she is so nervous that if she does go and say hi, she often doesn't want to eat her treat. She'll take it, but drop it. So I'm not sure how taking a treat from a stranger would go but I'm willing to give it a shot. Unfortunately the only kids we know of are all younger, and it's hard to approach kids in the neighborhood (and find ones that actually understand and would be willing to help) when you don't have kids because then you can come across as a diddler.

[Swissy Mom]

I have a Swissy and 3 kids so I have some thoughts on this.....

I don't know how old your kids are, ours are 9, almost 11 and 13 (7, 9 and 12 when Cash came home) The main thing is consistency, consistency, consistency...with puppy and kids!!

Anytime anyone is eating Cash is expected to be laying down. When we are at the table he has a particular rug a few feet away and if we are on the couch he has to be on his spot several feet away. He knows and as soon as food comes out he does the right thing, but he is 18 mos. now and it took some work to get here. When he was learning we would just keep putting him where we wanted him and rewarding him (not from our table!) for staying there. We started out rewarding for a few seconds, then a minute, and worked up. From about 8 or 9 months he has been doing it throughout our meals with little reminder. We NEVER feed him from the table. If he gets anything of what we have it is after we are finished and from his bowl. I don't think he has ever tried to take food from anyone's hand without being asked to do so.

As for the playing...we taught the kids early that when they are playing (with Cash or without) they should stop often and ask for a behavior (sit, down, etc...) If Cash immediately did as asked, there was a treat and play resumed. If not, play stopped and no treat. He caught on pretty quickly. If your kids are too young to do this themselves, you could do it for them. Basically, I just always wanted him to remember his manners and not get overly excited.

Cash went through an ankle-nipping (herding) phase with the kids and that one was tough. The younger two kids were unable to handle that one on their own. I basically claimed them as mine if he showed any sort of herding tendency with them. I would get between him and them and tell him "NO!" and then have them come put him through some "puppy push-ups" (sit, down, sit, stand, down, sit, etc...) It only lasted a few weeks before he caught on, but it was a tough few weeks (bearing in mind that Cash has been an extremely easy puppy!)

Generally, kids make great trainers. The more they are involved with basic training, I think, the better. My kids would set Cash's food bowl on the floor and tell him to wait then tell him when to go ahead. They did/do "puppy push-ups" with him often. He is very responsive with them and I think a lot of it is because they have been involved. Even young kids can put the food bowl down, ask for a sit or down or wait and treat for it and it is a great bonding tool.

I have LOTS of ideas on Swissies and kids based on what has worked for us. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on the age and temperament of your kids and puppy.

[Yeti_Girl]

I don't have much to add except, they'll both learn. Kids get taken out by big excited dogs. Comes with the territory. The kids and the dog/puppy adapt. Dylan used to get out of the way SO fast at "here comes Copper!" and Copper was so agile for being 125lbs when it came to moving around a baby. Its funny, so is Bogey, our loner. He has two kids, and he is SO gentle with the baby, wont even grab a toy from him.

[Delynnr]

Unfortunately the only kids we know of are all younger, and it's hard to approach kids in the neighborhood (and find ones that actually understand and would be willing to help) when you don't have kids because then you can come across as a diddler.

Yeah - we have tons of kids in the neighborhood and none of our own but as puppies the dogs were kid magnets so we did not have that issue. I also have a LOT of relatives and we were around them a lot while boku and caza were growing up.

Maybe watch for people in your neighborhood walking their dogs and kids? If you have any older teens walking their dogs and they live close go over and explain to the parents? Do you have co-workers with older kids and dogs? Other people you know? You have done so much with Abby I bet she will be able to get over the kid fear as well. She just needs to learn to associate kids with good things, not scary things.

[Hounds_N_Leo]

Get a pup that's a natural? LOL. I know I know...no help. My kids know the basic rules around dogs but when kids are small small...it's best to just know they will need some separation and intense structure. It's better they stay apart a bit more than attempt to have them together all the time. That's asking for trouble. Pretty much everything here is good advice. I haven't really used much of it because Sully is the only dog I own right now that wasn't either born here, or born knowing how to be around kids. But both kids were old enough when he arrived to know the rules and he is never with the kids unless I am present. He is the only dog we have here that's mouthy...and even that's improved as he's gotten older.

It really is easier when they're imprinted on, handled by, and around kids at a VERY early age too I have found. So hopefully your breeder either has kids that interact with the pups or plans on a few outings to places kids frequent to acclimate them. I do both when I have litters. As you can see both my kids are integral parts of puppy rearing and socialization....

[dogsDearly]

hey guys thank you sooo much for all the responses and the thoughtful insight. My kids are little. My son is going to be 3 in August. And while he's a very good "almost 3" his self-restraint is still not very evolved and he's constant loud talker/making crazy sound FX noises/etc. My daughter is a grown up 5 who listens well. Kelly, it's too bad we live so far away because my daughter would be great for abby. She's thoughtful, calm and takes direction well.

More questions/thoughts later..

[Swissy Mom]

What Gina said probably has a lot to do with Cash also. We went to visit his litter almost every week from the time they were 4 weeks until he came home at 9.5 weeks. I know our breeder had other kids coming also and we have gone to visit and help socialize her other litters just because there is nothing like playing/being handled by 3 kids. My kids have grown up with dogs (lab and husky before Cash) and know how to be around dogs, but Cash also got a lot of kid time from a VERY early age and I think that really helped. Hopefully, your breeder will have the pups around kids also.

ETA: We also had gates up around the house to both contain Cash and give the kids an escape/break when they needed to be apart from him. It is important to keep the interaction positive and sometimes a bit of separation goes a long way.

[Hounds_N_Leo]

They really are bomb proof going out the door. Sully's breeder was an older lady with no kids and a kennel set up and I could absolutely tell the moment he walked in. He had no clue what my kids were LOL. He was alright with them but as far as he was concerned? They were littermates. Not human beings.

Cleo came to us from a breeder that had kids of their own and foster kids, and some of those had special needs. It shows, everyday in her temperament and I am very grateful for it. My pups always always leave my house with a positive outlook on kids and an affinity for them. They are sources of fun, affection, and love...but never are they chew toys or littermates or sources of fear.

[dogsDearly]

Well, I do appreciate the thoughts about making sure the breeder brought kids into the litter. And getting one that is a natural. Ha ha. (As the breeder picks the pup for which person... i can only hope that happened!) But as I already have the puppy I'm more interested in training kids to handle Zen. We have a LOT of kids planning on visiting.. not to mention my own kids.

Jen thanks for your thoughts about Cash. I already see the ankle nipping behavior and Ii'm starting working with interrupting play with a training exercise.

1) Zen likes my kids but she treats them differently than she treats Brian and me. She wants to play with them. She is not as attentive towards them as she is with the adults. She follows us with her eyes everywhere. So slowly im trying to incorporate the kids more in training and have her handfeed zen a lot.

2) I'm working with my daughter but Maiwenn is a little afraid of Zen. She's pretty ginger with her even though she wants to be around constantly. So i'm trying to teach her to be more demonstrative with her energy. Like pretend there is a bubble around Zen.. and every
time Zen runs towards her.. instead of running away: walk forward and get in Zen's space. It's hard because maiwenn is fighting her instincts to avoid getting mouthed.

[Swissy Mom]

Keep at it. It takes time and will be a work in progress for many months (if not years) not come. Try to get your kiddos involved with training...even if it's only "sit" a million times a day. It will help with Zen seeing them as people rather than puppies. If they want to pet her, have them ask for a "sit" first. If they want to treat her, same thing. Whatever they want to do, have them ask for a behavior first. She will become responsive to them pretty quickly. Good luck! Before you know it, she will meld into your family and you won't be able to imagine what life was like before her.

[mezmerelda]

You brought up the mouthiness stuff - so I'm going to mention something. And obviously, it's a bit different with kids than adults.

One of our breeder goes against the standard of discouraging mouthiness when they are young. We have gone along with her with all 3 of our Swissies. Her thought process is that while the pups are young, they may have sharp teeth, but they don't have much in the way of jaw strength compared to what they have as adults, so teaching them to be careful (gentle) with it is easier when they are young. It's worked well for us. All of the Swissies have been very gentle with humans. Even Ozzy, who is actually a very mouthy dog, is extremely careful. And I think he's mouthy because he was hand fed as a pup (singleton - mom had no milk) and because Dan likes to play with their mouths.

Zen and the kids will get there. You will be proud of all 3 of them.

[dogsDearly]

You brought up the mouthiness stuff - so I'm going to mention something. And obviously, it's a bit different with kids than adults.

One of our breeder goes against the standard of discouraging mouthiness when they are young. We have gone along with her with all 3 of our Swissies. Her thought process is that while the pups are young, they may have sharp teeth, but they don't have much in the way of jaw strength compared to what they have as adults, so teaching them to be careful (gentle) with it is easier when they are young. It's worked well for us. All of the Swissies have been very gentle with humans. Even Ozzy, who is actually a very mouthy dog, is extremely careful. And I think he's mouthy because he was hand fed as a pup (singleton - mom had no milk) and because Dan likes to play with their mouths.

Zen and the kids will get there. You will be proud of all 3 of them.

Yeah, this is Ian Dunbar method. He's the training method we are subscribing to. We're going to his school for puppy kindergarden. (we chose this school partly because they encourage the whole family as young as three) His idea is that the most dangerous of dogs is the one that never bit much as a puppy, so it never really learned how to modify it's bite pressure. So if an accident happens (dogs tail gets caught in a car door, etc) this is the kind of dog that you won't expect and will be the most dangerous. So the theory is, teach bite pressure first (allow them to mouth) ... then once they are more gentle, (teach to not mouth.)

It all sounds good... in theory.

[Yeti_Girl]

Yeah, this is Ian Dunbar method. He's the training method we are subscribing to. We're going to his school for puppy kindergarden. (we chose this school partly because they encourage the whole family as young as three) His idea is that the most dangerous of dogs is the one that never bit much as a puppy, so it never really learned how to modify it's bite pressure. So if an accident happens (dogs tail gets caught in a car door, etc) this is the kind of dog that you won't expect and will be the most dangerous. So the theory is, teach bite pressure first (allow them to mouth) ... then once they are more gentle, (teach to not mouth.)

It all sounds good... in theory.

we did that training. go to the puppy play dates. the socialization is awesome.

[mezmerelda]

Very cool. Good luck with it.