Dog on dog socialization ideas?

[dogsDearly]

So ever since I started puppy class, ive been noticing how zen kind of slinks around the class... shy of the other puppies. By the end of the class, i thought she was getting better but now i think she's getting worse. Because of her dog shy tendencies.. i've been taking her to a puppy social once a week, and trying to hook up play dates with other dogs. Trouble is, most of the dogs we know are older and bigger and not always good with puppies and zen spends most of her time either tail between her legs or belly in the air. Its really frustrating because we've really been working on it.

Today i took her to the school field near my house and there were some people with their dogs there. (it's become a psuedo dog park ever since they closed down the school.) When she greeted one pair of dogs on leashes, her hackles were completely up all up and down her back.

This kind of behavior is really worrying me and beyond taking her to puppy socials every other day ( not possible with how sick my mom is) i'm not sure how to handle it. I've been getting her with dogs of all shapes and sizes 2-3 times a week! Anyone got ideas or tips how i can nip this kind of behavior in the bud? She's only 4 months old... if i keep taking her to the socials, maybe she'll eventually get comfortable around other dogs?

[mezmerelda]

OK, the one thing I can suggest right off the bat is to not let it worry you too much. She's really going to be tuned into your emotions, and that can make things better or worse. I've gone through this with Indy, but with people not dogs. Have a shot of whiskey or something (not really kidding) or whatever calms you down before you put her in these situations.

[sam.i.am]

Just keep plugging away, Melanie. More exposure to dogs will help her. Especially if she finds a few she really likes and connects with. She hasn't been socializing for very long has she (I remember you posted about waiting until her last parvo series to socialize her and that wasn't too long ago?). Try to be as hands-off with her as possible as she socializes -- e.g. no coddling if she runs back to you or hides between your legs -- just go about your business and let her decide when to go explore more. Let her build her own confidence. And, I agree with Mez -- do whatever it takes for you to relax (or send your husband) when she goes to puppy play dates.

[Baroooo]

Raised hackles by themselves are not something to stress about. They are something to be aware of, but any type of over stimulation can cause raised hackles. More so in swissies than other breeds I've owned. Truffle and Cobalt are bestest buddies, but when they play, Truffle's hackles are raised so high he looks like a razorback hog.
Have you read about developmental fear periods? Realize that may be a part of her shyness and just keep piling on positive experiences. In most cases, this too shall pass.

[Hounds_N_Leo]

She might be going thru a fear stage right now too. They typically will around 5-6 month old and if she is around that age I would STOP doing things that freak her out and do things she is confident about until she is thru the stage. Negative experiences in a fear stage can linger for life. IME the best way to accustom a pup to other dogs is in a safe pack like setting with the SAME dogs all the time, they gain confidence and that will transfer over to other dogs and other situtaions. Right now random encounters are not what you need because EVERY time, she has to re set to the beginning because of a proper lack of trust in the "strange dog". I don't like to let my dogs interact with other dogs unless I know them well. Too much can happen and the last thing I need is some ignoramous telling me "oh my dog LOVES puppies" and then their dog proceeding to hold my puppy down while it pees on itself as the owner says "see! they're HUGGING!" and yes, this HAS happened to me before.

[Yeti_Girl]

We have a puppy in our neighborhood that is just a few weeks younger, I could set up a playdate for you? There's also a school (sounds similar to yours) that is near us where we took Copper almost every evening and every weekend morning and there is a range of sizes and ages of dogs and (at least when we were there) they were all pretty well behaved. You guys could swing by after a puppy social?

[dogsDearly]

OK, the one thing I can suggest right off the bat is to not let it worry you too much. She's really going to be tuned into your emotions, and that can make things better or worse. I've gone through this with Indy, but with people not dogs. Have a shot of whiskey or something (not really kidding) or whatever calms you down before you put her in these situations.

Ha ha. good advice. Especially the whisky part.

yeah, and to be fair... house hold is pretty on edge and stressed right now so that probably has a lot to do with it.

sam, i wasn't taking her out in public places but i was taking her to classes, puppy socials and letting her meet friend's dogs. Everything they say you should be doing. It was funny when i took her to the last social one of the trainers asked me after watching her for a minute "is this her first social?" and i said. "Nope. Her 6th!" And she said "REALLY!!! And she's still acting like that??!!" Talk about giving me a complex. (Which you guys know.. is easy for me!)

I like Gina's idea of sticking with known "mellow" dogs to build her confidence. She's had a couple of instances where she's met grown dogs who are either too rowdy, or correcting her constantly... and a couple of guardy dogs who are downright unfriendly. (There are a LOT of those up here in these mountains.)

Karen, i have read about them but admittedly i probably need a refresher. Good to know about the hackles though.

Amy I would love that! This weekend probably not but next maybe. I'm going to stick with going to the social once a week. I wish i could get her to a social more than once a week but with the kids' schedule and our location it just isn't possible.

Thanks guys! I'll keep you updated..

[mezmerelda]

I used to get (and to be honest, still get) people asking me if Indy is a rescue or if something happened to make her the way she is. I used to let it bug me, but it just doesn't anymore. People will always feel free to share their opinions (or rub a prego lady's belly) whether solicited or not. Keep that in mind if you ever try to get into anything competitive with her, because it's even worse. Keep on keeping on. Find some calm, "bullet proof" dogs her her to socialize with. And since you're doing everything right, don't let the comments from people freak you out. Oh, and always carry a flask of booze.

[sam.i.am]

Oh, I didn't realize she was going to puppy places and classes. I didn't mean to sound negative...I was trying to be encouraging about giving her time to find her confidence. And, I should have totally mentioned that the dogs she interacts with should be screened and known to be kind. I did not mean to imply that she should fend for herself in random situations. I would not bring her around grumpy, rough, over-correcting dogs. I guess we were lucky with Oliver and it was very easy for me to find a small group of dogs/pups who were just super easy going. I kept him away from rough players as a puppy b/c I did not want him to try to keep up or play like that.
When you find a nice, smallish group of pups/kind dogs, then I would let her find her way without hovering. That's what I should have said to be more clear.

And yes, Mez is totally right....try to ignore people's need to meddle and let you know that something you are doing or that Zen is doing doesnt fit within their idea of norm. People are really pushy with 'helping' people to train their puppies. People still give me advice for Delilah...."OH, I hope your socialize her a lot...She's a big dog -- she'll need strict obedience classes.....Do you do X, Y, Z?....Why don't you let her go to the dog park?"....ETC ETC ETC. If someone is helpful, then that's great, but so many people are idiots and just do not give helpful advice. Even dog trainers are not always great -- you just have to find what works and what you really agree with. It's a process.

[Hounds_N_Leo]

To me it's about realizing what is NORMAL for dogs. It is not NORMAL canine behavior to be immediately welcoming and excited about a strange unknown dog and want to play. It is normal to be cautious, go thru the ritualistic greetings, which sometimes DO include lip lifting or growling and posturing. It is normal for some dogs to not like others. It is normal for other dogs to know from a pretty far distance away that a given dog is not welcoming to them and hang back. You need to also brush up on dog language to also be able to see the signs of issues before they occur.

Not every dog or even breed of dog is going to give the "typical" reposnses before things go south. Add in leashes and/or limited escape routes (fenced in areas or small rooms) and treasured possessions (owners, children, territorty) and dog to dog interaction is something to always keep an eagle eye on.

And at the end of the day, ask yourself would you rather walk a 100lbs plus dog that is mildly cautious and willing to wait and see or be properly introduced or outright ignore other dogs on a walk? Or be dragged by same dog in a supreme all fired hurry to "get over there to that other dog and PLAY PLAY PLAY!" regardless of how you or the other dog, might feel about that?

[SapheraGirl]

Truffle and Cobalt are bestest buddies, but when they play, Truffle's hackles are raised so high he looks like a razorback hog.

LOL!!! Saphera, too!! She is super dog friendly but plays with hackles up; happy as can be. If she knows the dog, it's instant romping. If the dog is a stranger, she is more aloof at first. Zen is still pretty little and if she is playing with bigger dogs, it can be intimidating. You are doing all the right things; keep it up...just give it time.

Oh, and kiss her sweet beautiful face for me!

[Cole's Mom]

Cole was the same way and it still takes him a while for him to warm up to people and dogs even with intense socialization as a pup. I wouldnt stress yourself just keep working at it and as long as she isn't showing agression don't beat yourself up about it. Mez I have also been asked if Cole is a rescue dog...I have to laugh because if they mean a dog who gets home cooked meals and sleeps in our bed and is beyond spoil then yes he is a rescue dog

[ALDOGMOM]

All good advice.

Dogs are like people - not everyone is an extrovert.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things with her.