e collars: your opinion?

[dogsDearly]

So our really good friend has a GSD/Pyrenees/Viszla mix. Blake is a year old and REALLY big. He's got the Pyrenees size with the Shepard looks and attitude...and the Vizsla energy. Our friend takes this big boy on an off leash hike every day and he uses an e-collar for when they run into other dogs and if Blake gets too far away. If he calls for Blake, and Blake doesn't come soon enough... Blake gets a jolt.

He was singing the praises of this thing and telling us we should get one for Zen. (who is still jumping up on people sometimes, and who likes to ignore being called when other dogs,food,people are more interesting) But I don't know... they seem like a crutch to me. I'd rather focus on positive methods while she's small...and save more drastic tools for future issues if they come up.

Still... being a parent.. i've learned to never say never or get too rooted in any one philosophy. I remember all too well how before i had kids I'd say all sorts of things I'd "never" do and then come to find out after kids that an open mind is best.

I figured I'd ask the group your experiences with these things. Good? Bad? Ugly? All opinions are welcome.

[ShilohsGirlJen]

I have used one. With propper training and use it is another traning tool. Not all e-collars are made the same or function the same way. I have been through the stims on ours. It should anly be used on a behavior that had been taught and the dog can do it without the stim. It is not a punishment. It needs to be used with respect.

One example of when it really worked for us.

Lowe jumped out of the boat in a channel and was in danger. I called and she did not come, I used stim 1/2 and she redirected from the ducks to me and came back to the boat to load.

Lowe was chasing a loon. Refused the come command and I knew she could get hurt or worse. I had to use stim 1/2 and 1 and she then redirected.

I also used it to excellerate training. In Wisconsin we have no fences. Lowe had to be bomb bomb proof on recalls as at times she needs to be off leash. Nobody wants to see a 1oolb dog running down the drive at them. She had to return to me no questions asked,


Lowe's unit also has a positive sound. When she is doing something right I can reward her with the sound only. This worked well in the traning ring and when working on fence behaviors.

It can be a good tool when used correctly and very bad if used incorrectly. If you have any trainers in the area that promote them I would get fitted and take the use class. It was a 8 hour class for Lowe, me and my mom. It was broken up over several days and I had homework.

[krb0471]

I has issues with Bajsa when she was young about that. We trained a few times a day on recall and wander-sits (as she's out walking away from me I'd call "sit" or "down" so she had to do it right there- not come back to me to do it). It took a long time, at least until she was a year old to be 80% reliable, then got more reliable as she got older. I also took her into a safe woods area and would hide from her after she wandered and I called her to make her concerned that she couldn't find me- I wanted her to be aware of having to check in with me. After a few times of calling her and her panicking she got the idea. My ex has a Neo that is going to get an ecollar. He is a stubborn r-tarded oaf and no amount of training I have done has made him remotely reliable. Your dog is smart but she is going to test your patience around ages 6 mos and 11 mos (or 6 TO 11 ms with mine)- be a benevolent leader, without the collar, and when she is 2 you will be proud!

[sam.i.am]

Puppy lack of focus is normal and lack of manners takes time to train away -- just like it does with two-legged kids.
I would not use an e-collar.

This is normally a touchy topic -- kind of like how touchy the topic of spanking kids is and you will get opinions all across the board that are emotional and everyone can cite reasons why they do or do not do something. Obviously, everyone who uses one feels justified and everyone who doesn't use one feels equally justified.

You have to check your own compass and do something that you can feel good about for the lifetime of your dog.

[ALDOGMOM]

Train....Train...Train...and train some more.
Would never use one.

Would never let any dog off leash until I had a reliable recall.

Just my two cents.

[mezmerelda]

I think ecollars, if used properly, can be a good training tool. That being said, I think Zen is still very young, and there are many other routes you can take. I would personally only use it as a last resort. I know someone who uses them for her dogs in training. She does field work with them - hunting trials, nose work, etc. I asked her about using them to keep our dogs from attacking the fence line, and here's what she said.

Let's see if I can help you with your dilemma. The thing with a collar, you can't just put it on and correct the dog for a behavior issue. The collar is meant to reinforce a known command like sit, here, heel, etc. You have to teach the behavior before you can correct for non compliance. Now you can in some instances use it to curb bad behavior, but the dog still needs to be collar conditioned.

Collar conditioning is how you figure out what level of correction is appropriate for a dog and teach them what the correction means. That process can take about two to three weeks depending on the dog. There are some programs out there that will convince you otherwise, but I have never seen positive long term results, just band aides.

[Swissies4Me]

We do use e-collars and are huge fans of them as a training tool when used correctly. Also, I have to agree with what others said that Zen is much too young right now, in my opinion. We started using one for Duke when he was around 2 years old. Our trainer had recommended it and I really wasn't too fond of the idea at first, but we tried it and are so glad that we have the e-collar as one of our training tool options.

Like everyone else said it is very important to receive proper training on how to use them. Part of our training involved putting the e-collar on our arms and having the trainer start at a low setting and move up until we could feel the collar. We have two Dogtra NCP 170 collars (in our opinion Zoey is still too young for the e-collar). I think the quality of the collar, like Jenny said, is really important as well. Our collars have a vibrate function and that is really all we ever use after the initial e-collar training.

Duke and Ruger are currently using their e-collars daily because we are having our fence installed at our new house. I can take them out and they can run around and even go on off leash walks for exercise. They have good recalls, but I feel so much better knowing that even though they are off leash that I have some control over them. Poor Zoey is on leash and going crazy, but her fence should be complete by the end of the week.

[Hounds_N_Leo]

I have used them...being in a hunting breed I have also seen/known them to be used for training hounds. I have no problem with it. Used properly. Even a buckle collar can wound, traumatize, or kill a dog employed in a cruel on inappropriate manner. The tool is less important than the wielder of the tool.

I would not use one for a timid dog, or a young puppy, they also are VERY bad for dogs that escalate with pain or redirect to the handler when overstimulated or agitated. But I do think a dog with the proper bounce back and nerve can make a great candidate for an e collar. I actually think e collars are worse when used for CONTAINMENT vs training.

People who have used something...from a vacuum to a diet to a cleaning product will go CRAZY about it for awhile. Grain of salt...see where they're at in a few years...ANY form of training takes maintenence. That is where many people fail. E collar are not a shortcut...only a tool.

[mezmerelda]

People who have used something...from a vacuum to a diet to a cleaning product will go CRAZY about it for awhile. Grain of salt...see where they're at in a few years...ANY form of training takes maintenence. That is where many people fail. E collar are not a shortcut...only a tool.

I agree with this. When I was trying to find a collar that worked well for walking Indy, I loved the prong collar at first. Three weeks later, she got over it and so did I.

In a year or two, if Zen has issues you want to address, work with your trainer (or a trainer who you trust and is good w/ecollars) to figure out the best option. She's very young now, and may start coming around in a bit. And then it will all go out the window when she hits her teenage phase. And then again when she has her first heat cycle. I could go on and on...

[kasmith]

There is absolutely no way I would use them. All of the work that we do with Abby is based on positive reinforcement, and the idea of an e-collar smacks in the face of that imo. But as Samantha said it is a touchy subject.

[Itsapyr]

I don't like them. they don't recommend them for pyrs at all. That being said Cortney used it with Jack and had great success. I still think if he really wants to go he will go regardless of the collar.

[dogsDearly]

Yeah, everybody i know who LOVES them has a German Shepard. Coincidence or..???

Thanks peeps. Yeah, i'm actually quite happy with the school we are going to with Zen. She's doing really well with just positive reinforcement. But I was really curious what y'all thought of them.