Coyote Removal

[mezmerelda]

OK, heard this on the news this morning. One of the nearby towns hired a trapper on Monday to remove the coyotes from the area. They've so far caught and killed 4 of them. I understand that they are a huge danger to pets, (and are responsible for many deaths in the area) but isn't there a better way? I don't know where you could relocate them, so it's really a question. I know people here have been greatly affected by coyotes, so I don't mean to offend anyone or cause heartache, but this bothers me. The coyotes are doing what coyotes do, and is it right to kill all of them in that area because of it?

[Terry]

That is certainly a problem that I am sure none of us here take lightly. We have encroached so much into thier territory that these are the things that happen. It was a huge problem in San Diego. I remember talking to one of the ER vets and they said from 5am-7am they would be flooded with pets brought in that a coyote got. I certainly don't know the answer.

[ALDOGMOM]

We are having a terrible problem with them here and our subdivision has had to hire a trapper to remove them. I didn't ask exactly what that means and I'm pretty sure I don't want to know...

We tend to have the most problems with them right after they have cleared property for development (going on now)...It seems that it gives their food sources less cover so they congregate where the food is...

I'm very much a live and let live kind of person but my neighbor across the street has had them come up on her deck while they were in their den...They appear to be losing their fear of people and that is what worries me...Especially down here because some yo-yo will start shooting them from their back yard...

I see them all of the time during the day...One day - trotting down the cart path on the golf course...

We (people) have caused this problem and now we are having to deal with it...
Mother Nature always bats last..

[mezmerelda]

I guess it kind of shocked me that the news mentioned that they're being killed, but it shouldn't. I think the whole point of the story is the one board member that voted the plans down with the hopes that they could find a better option than death.

I've seen them in my neighborhood from time-to-time. I guess it's been a couple of years since I last saw one since I remember Indy being a puppy at the time. It's just sad.

[SapheraGirl]

It's so sad. When I had Kyra, my malamute, we had to put a bright orange hunting vest on her when we went to the cabin. Not because there is an epidemic of coyotes but because people shoot them for "fun". She was an escape artist and I was always so afraid she would sneak out of the house.

I get these animals can't be roaming around our subdivisions. No child/adult/pet should be in danger. But I agree. There has to be a more humane way to remove them.

[Terry]

Kim is right, the scarey thing is that they are not afraid of humans any longer.

[Hounds_N_Leo]

You know my experience with them. But ever since that story about two of them killing a GROWN WOMAN?? I am thinking they need to be managed once that fear is lost. They WILL start on people...probably the young or wounded just like any other prey.

We are predators too, and I don't personally feel myself "outside" Nature. I am part of it...and it is not unnatural to either usurp territory from another predator NOR defend such. Both are natural acts for predators...which humans are.

I will leave be as long as my property (territorial markers) are respected and my pack left alone. If either of those are breached than defending both territory and pack is quite natural behavior, imo.

ETA: the only other option I see is spaying or neutering or chemical birth control...they'd eventually die of old age without replacements. That would need to be done constantly tho because more would move in.

ETA again: and let's not forget the ever present worry of interbreeding with domestic feral or poorly managed dogs. THAT is a problem and does occur. In that case you'd add the natural aggression, curiosity and resourcefulness of the coyote to a genepool predisposed to hang around human habitation. Not good.

[Terry]

wow Gina, very well put.

[Swissy Mom]

I don't know what the answer is either. I see both sides of this coin. Ideally, I would love it if wild animals didn't have to suffer habitat loss and the subsequesnt consequences caused by humans, but I'm a practical girl and I eat meat so I can't condemn the practice of putting down animals who pose a danger to humans and our packs. Most large, predatory animals have to be put down when they lose their fear of humans (ie bears, wolves, etc...) Our ever expanding urban sprawl creeps ever more into their habitat and they, in turn, wind up in ours. We make food easy with our trash cans stuffed with discarded food and our small pets. The coyotes are just being coyotes, yes and I'm not mad at them for it, but like Gina, I feel that we do have the right to defend our territory. Coyotes are far from endangered. In an ideal world, I would prefer they have their territory and we have ours, but the two often overlap and something has to give. The matter is complicated by the fact that we are often the encroachers into coyote territory, but ultimately, in nature, the larger predator usually wins. Relocation would be great, but I'm just not sure where they could go that would be far enough from people given the limited rescources that most communities have.

[Kodiak]

This is a hard situation. Around here, we have a burgeoning Bald Eagle population. And a lot of small pets. Well, how does a Bald Eagle differentiate from a jack rabbit or a Yorkie? WHen I worked at the vet clinic, we'd see a surprising number of small dogs being 'attacked' by these eagles. Most are grabbed, picked up, then dropped back down, if they are lucky. Have you ever seen what an eagle talon can do to a tiny dog?

Or there was the Dobie that found his way into a slew occupied by a mountain lion...and how he got away with 'only' missing most of the skin down the side of his body baffles me. He had four deep gouges down his side and ribbons of his flesh just hanging there. All the big cat did was take one swipe. The cat could have easily, EASILY killed that dog.

The northern part of our state is seeing an increase in wolf populations, but we have SO many deer and moose, they have no reason to chill around people, and they don't. But farmers are still bawling about how they are scared for their livestock, even though there have been NO cases of the wolves interfering with any livestock herds. The farmers are still poaching the wolves if they see any, and coyotes and foxes are just shot for sport. My step-mother's family farms a large operation in northern MN and they USED to have a hand full of GSD/Husky mix dogs on their farm. All but one of them was found shot over the past 5 years. They look every bit like a wolfish/coyote-type dog, especially from a distance.

At least my dogs are black and white, so that is a TINY bit of a tip off they are DOGS and not wild critters, but if we go anywhere that is not IN Fargo, they at least wear a bandanna or coat of some sort.

As far as hurting people, around here, you better watch out for the deer. More people die in deer-related vehicle fatalities than many other types of car crashes even. I have never even heard of any other wild animal around here even approaching people (other than skunks and raccoons).

I realize ND is not populated the same way that most other areas of this country and our wildlife management needs are a lot different. What is sad about here is the mentality of "Hey! Look! Shoot it and throw it in the back of yer truck! We'll show everybody at the bar!"

[Hounds_N_Leo]

yep the population denisty makes the problem IMO. You cannot have coyotes at public parks...groomed, manicured, suburban, public parks with cement walkways and jungle gyms and water fountains...but we do. In broad daylight while people jog by them and walk their dogs by them and kids play....there are coyotes laying around.

Sometimes they follow a dog walker or jogger, or make a grab for a smaller dog. Sometimes they get onto a school's grounds and stalk or shadow the students as they play outside at recess, it IS scary and imo it WILL escalate because the fear is simply non existant for these coyotes.

Add in the disease/Rabies fears and well...it's a problem.

as I mentioned sterilztion is the only non lethal means I can see...but more will simply wander in and the cycle will need to continue. How much that would cost me as a taxpayer vs a bullet or snare, is something that I do consider, if that makes me a bad person...so be it.

[IlliniJeeper]

We have had Coyotes in our yard before. Just last week we had a pretty big scare because Toby was outside to use the restroom but he was barking like crazy and baroo'ing at something (more feverish than his usual chat with the neighborhood dogs). Katie looked out the window and said "There's a coyote in the field!" Sure enough, there one was about 10 yards from our property line and Toby was out back tied up. We got him into the house and the coyote took off into the field, but we saw him still wandering around out there about an hour later.

That said, they occupy a crucial part of the food chain in an area like ours. Without the coyotes we would be overrun with mice, rabbits, gophers, and all kinds of other nuisances for us. At the same time, those vermin mean lost income to the farmers in our area. Since we don't have much livestock in the Peoria area, just cropland, there isn't much concern about coyotes taking sheep or chickens, but they do keep the herbivores in check and out of the farmers' fields. But, we don't live in suburbia. We live on the edge of a corn field, so our experiences are quite different (and our coyotes still seem to have a very real fear of humans)....

[Lora]

I agree with Gina. I grew up in Arizona where coyotes were a really bad threat. I have had several up close and personal encounters with them.

I was chased down the road by a pack of them when i was in high school around dusk. I managed to run to my friends house and slam the door on their enclosed patio just before the pack reached me. When I was visiting home one jumped my sisters fence and grabbed a hold of her shitzu. we heard the ruckus and I went chasing after it screaming like a banshi and it dropped the dog and jumped back over the fence. She had 3 small kids at the time. They are known to attack children and dogs are not allowed in the state parks in Arizona any longer because coyotes and mountain lions (puma/cougar - same animal) will come down after the dogs and people have been attacked.

In Ohio they are a scourge on farmers stock and are encroaching more and more on neighborhoods that were once farm land. These housing areas all have tons of kids that play outside with out fences - most of the additions you can not have fencing for aesthetic purposes.

IMO they are disease ridden vermin that carry rabies and can be quite viscous when in packs. You can scare off a single scout if its not desperately hungry but you wont scare a pack, with numbers comes courage.

[Itsapyr]

I lived around them for years in Utah and never had a problem. I scared them a whole lot more than they scared me. I never had one be aggressive or chase and the only one that followed me was one in Yellowstone that the tourists had been feeding hot dogs to all summer.
Since the wolves have been reintroduced the coyote population is less than 1/2 what it used to be but now they are killing the wolves because they are bigger and more of a threat. We have unbalanced nature. We had the same problem with the bears up here last year. Many wanted them shot for doing what bears do. You take away the food source and the predator disappears but everyone leaves their trash out, dog food out and dogs and cats themselves out. They mat be considered vermin but they eat one heck of alot of "true vermin" such as mice and rats. They actually make up over 50% of a coyotes food source.

[Kodiak]

But, we don't live in suburbia. We live on the edge of a corn field, so our experiences are quite different (and our coyotes still seem to have a very real fear of humans)....

See, our house is sort of in both (if I recall, you are familiar with ND...) we live in a new subdivision in a growing, heavily populated part of town, there is residential and commercial land being developed all around us, but 20 yards away is working farmland. A cornfield harbors the deer in the fall and a bean field is a haven for the rats and mice.

I can't even count how many mice the dogs have killed in our yard and garage in the year + we have lived here. Fargo proper has no problems with coyotes, but non-threatening animals (again, I'll pick on deer) are constantly destroying landscaping, gardens etc. Last fall one even jumped into a house through a picture window, ransacked the house, and smashed out through another window!

We are fortunate to have somewhere else for the predatory animals to go (meaning, not into our parks and yards). We have a healthy big cat population and even a hunting season for them (open until 5 tags are filled) but that doesnt stop the poaching. Our big predators are still very much afraid of people.

I'm sure it would be much scarier to have a errant coyote break into your house than a crazy deer!

[Hounds_N_Leo]

I think that Urban Coyotes are close to becoming their own species. Most have completely changed their diets and habits...really. It's very marked. This suburb dates from the 1970's no one here has been "displaced" any time recently. there are major roads, a freeway, and numerous well lit shopipng centers within a 2 mile radius of my home. A major shopping mall within 5mis. They simply moved in for the easy pickings...dogs and cats...and who knows what else.

We have PLENTY of other rodentia predators...snakes and owls for one...feral cats for another. Give me feral cats over coyotes ANYTIME. They aren't going to kill my dogs or go after my kiddos.

[Lora]

I wasnt meaning to be snarky, here in Ohio they are actually legally classed as vermin.

[Itsapyr]

I wasnt meaning to be snarky, here in Ohio they are actually legally classed as vermin.

Oh I know ...Lots of people consider them vermin. In Utah they are allowed to put out poisoned bait unfortunately in the winter a large population of bald eagles winter there...eight were poisoned in one month eating bait left out for coyotes legally. I don't know the answer but I just wish there was a better way. Feral cats kill approximately 1 million song birds every year and that's sad so I guess depending on how you look at it it depends on where you are on the food chain.

[ToBScholarly]

I wonder how coyotes would taste...

[Moni]

Living on farms, we have much more problems with feral cats than coyotes. Though I admit that the coyotes did at least help keep the feral cat population under control. Then again, we're talking about totally different areas. Around here the cats are usually diseased because people just do driveby drop offs without spaying/neutering or vaccinating. They also pee and poop EVERYWHERE. They aren't too bad on this farm, but in NY, oh MAN. They'd break into the warehouses and make huge messes.

I do agree about targeting problem animals, but traps and poison are so random that they can harm anything that happens across them. A bullet is much more humane as well. Though it would be ideal if they could be relocated, sometimes it just isn't probable.